Just not seeing it.

[Frankie Burrows Cap]

Why are people measuring our progress ( or lack of it ) by what happened under Sheehan, that’s an extraordinary low bar to set.

I don’t think anyone has yet addressed the lack of a discernible style of play or game plan that I mentioned in my original post.

I think it’s pretty clear what’s changed and what we’re trying to do without the ball.

We’re pressing much higher - specifically the two 8s, along with the opposite side winger pinching in to try and crowd the opposition and either win the ball back in the opposition half or force them to go long and give the ball away.

On the ball we’re still sometimes ponderous when the opposition lets us have the ball but I’d say that’s partly a pattern across the Championship and partly down to the current personnel. Having a ball playing centre half and having Galbraith playing centrally would help this IMO.

In the middle 3rd the idea is clearly for the full back, winger and 8 to link up on either side of the pitch to try and create 1v1s or overloads in the final 3rd. Again, this can clearly be improved on with recruitment (and maybe some of the newer players developing) over the summer as we are getting into countless good positions out wide but failing to produce any end product.

Another difference is the link up with Vipotnik - his improved hold up play before sweeping the ball out to the wingers and encouraging 3rd man runs from the 8s has led to quite a few opportunities. Unfortunately decision making in the final 3rd has meant we’ve not created as much as we should from these opportunities.

Is all of this working - clearly not - but the results at home and improvements in terms of chances created, shots and XG suggest progress is being made. Hopefully we’ll see this lead to more consistent results on the road and a continuation of the results at home next season.

 

[Vetchonian]

Why are people measuring our progress ( or lack of it ) by what happened under Sheehan, that’s an extraordinary low bar to set.

I don’t think anyone has yet addressed the lack of a discernible style of play or game plan that I mentioned in my original post.

Maybe because Matos plan varies from game to game based on the opposition,and the players avaiable.
I think some fans get to tied up on a style of play.
Lets be fair the fruad Martin had a discernable style of.play.....for all the good it did
I think Matos plan is when in possesion to play as Martinez get the ball forwards as quickly as possible...and when out of possesion press and harry the opposition to give up the ball.
Injuries,fitness and player limitations have no doubt affected Matos's plans.
Dont forget he joined us and had to hit the floor running....stopping the slide and getting us winning games.
Lets see what we look like after a pre season.

 

[Blackpooljack]

The squad needs an overall

Goalkeepers and the striking depart is fine even with Cullen for 3rd choice striker.

The players that need to go are:-

Josh Key
Jay Fulton
Melker Widdell
Jisung Eom
Goncalo Franco
Ricardo Santos
Joel Ward
Oliver Cooper
Marko Stamenic
Zeidane Inoussa
Ronald

I agree that some of our players need replacing but your list goes way over the top, what i would say is that our starting 11 contains 3 or 4 that wouldn't be in a top teams squad nevermind 11.

 

[Smurph]

I agree that some of our players need replacing but your list goes way over the top, what i would say is that our starting 11 contains 3 or 4 that wouldn't be in a top teams squad nevermind 11.

I thought it was a little over the top.

Be surprised if Ward, Cooper and Santos are still here come August.

 

[Copamundial]

Let’s go back to yesterday’s game, I saw two centre halves that hoofed the ball anywhere when they had time to control the ball, a midfield that charged around creating very little and a centre forward who was living off scraps.
The press was beaten many many times and Boro should have been out of sight by half time.
We are not a rounded team, we beat the sides around us lose to those above us, have relied on an excellent home record and the goals of practically one player to steer us away from danger.

I still believe that the squad is far better than some of our results suggest, the close season will be interesting and Matos still has a lot of work to do before I’m convinced that we’re heading in the right direction.

 

[Vetchonian]

Let’s go back to yesterday’s game, I saw two centre halves that hoofed the ball anywhere when they had time to control the ball, a midfield that charged around creating very little and a centre forward who was living off scraps.
The press was beaten many many times and Boro should have been out of sight by half time.
We are not a rounded team, we beat the sides around us lose to those above us, have relied on an excellent home record and the goals of practically one player to steer us away from danger.

I still believe that the squad is far better than some of our results suggest, the close season will be interesting and Matos still has a lot of work to do before I’m convinced that we’re heading in the right direction.

Yet many bemoan the fact our centre backs fanny about with the ball insteadnof clearing it.
Both centrbacks at times played passes rather than hoof it yesterday...but yes often resorted fo safety.first.

I susspect you are a Martinite.

Susscesful sides are confident sides Matos is building that in us confidence comes from results not "pretty" football.
Yes we are not a rounded team and our creative midfielder ie Galbraith is currently injured whilst previously he was filling in at right back.

For me we are a better watch than earlier in the season and appear more likely to get results then we did then.
As my earlier.pist said Matos arrived when we were in freefall. First he has had fo stop that ,consolidate and then move forwards.
Why not wait until he had had a preaeason and some input into.player recruitment before decrying him.
Im waiting until our 12th game next season that will tell us more

 

[sit_down_jack]

Let’s go back to yesterday’s game, I saw two centre halves that hoofed the ball anywhere when they had time to control the ball, a midfield that charged around creating very little and a centre forward who was living off scraps.
The press was beaten many many times and Boro should have been out of sight by half time.
We are not a rounded team, we beat the sides around us lose to those above us, have relied on an excellent home record and the goals of practically one player to steer us away from danger.

I still believe that the squad is far better than some of our results suggest, the close season will be interesting and Matos still has a lot of work to do before I’m convinced that we’re heading in the right direction.

Most of the issues you list above can be solved by recruitment. Remember, we were building a Sheehan team last summer and I don’t think he was too interested in possession as a method of controlling games. The fact that we were happy to have Burgess and Cabango as a partnership who are far too similar to one another says it all. Our priority was not technical talent and retaining the ball but work-rate and ball winning.

We are actually fourth in the league for average possession, Boro are top incidentally with 59.8%. Possession itself seems to be less prioritised these days and in general it feels like you see less of one team in total control, it’s a bit more punch for punch at the moment.

It’ll be interesting to see how we recruit this summer.

 

[Smurph]

Yet many bemoan the fact our centre backs fanny about with the ball insteadnof clearing it.
Both centrbacks at times played passes rather than hoof it yesterday...but yes often resorted fo safety.first.

I susspect you are a Martinite.

Susscesful sides are confident sides Matos is building that in us confidence comes from results not "pretty" football.
Yes we are not a rounded team and our creative midfielder ie Galbraith is currently injured whilst previously he was filling in at right back.

For me we are a better watch than earlier in the season and appear more likely to get results then we did then.
As my earlier.pist said Matos arrived when we were in freefall. First he has had fo stop that ,consolidate and then move forwards.
Why not wait until he had had a preaeason and some input into.player recruitment before decrying him.
Im waiting until our 12th game next season that will tell us more

You suspect right, Vetchy.

 

[Jackareme]

What I see with Matos is the evolution to a style that we only partially have the players to execute.
High energy and high press is designed to win the ball back asap and ideally in advanced positions.
When we have the ball the plan is to counter attack with pace when we transition from winning the ball, and it is to attack with width (often overloading the wide areas with attacking full backs)
We look to pass positively and "break the lines" with our passing much more than we saw with previous managers,
Here are the issues
* At full back Tymon is the role model, and Key CAN be also very good. Parker looks in the same mould (though raw). For much of the season we have lost that athletic attacking support on the right side and over played Tymon on the other side.
* When we attack our wide players SHOULD be causing havoc in transition - BUT Innoussa Widdell Ronald and Eom all flatter to deceive - and the stats don't lie, we provide no ammunition from the flanks - despite having the best striker (Goals v chances) in the league. Widdell and Eom in particular bemuse me - as they look as good as anything in the league to the naked eye - but the numbers are not there.
* Talking of passing through the lines - we have a lack of killer passes in the attacking midfield area. Galbraith stuck at full back has hurt us, and I am hoping that Walta has the profile to provide that spark.
* our 2 CB's are a problem because we literally only have 2 viable options, and while both are decent "muck and nettles" defenders - it is easy for the opposition to press them and make them cough up possession
* Much as Vipotnik has been a revelation this season - I still think he is not the ideal player for Matos. He lacks pace to threaten the ball over the top - and is also slow in the press and easy to play around. I think we will cash in and start Idah - who looks mobile and physical.
Selling Vipotnik for big money would be the catalyst for investing in the squad and balancing the books.
There are players who will be gone shortly and some decent youngsters making progress.
Santos Ward Cooper Fisher (and even Cullen and Ronald) might be out of the door, along with our loanees - to further trim the wage bill.
I agree with some of the posters above - the Championship is incredibly competitive, and we are only a couple of key additions away from being both entertaining and hard to beat,

 

[Copamundial]

Yet many bemoan the fact our centre backs fanny about with the ball insteadnof clearing it.
Both centrbacks at times played passes rather than hoof it yesterday...but yes often resorted fo safety.first.

I susspect you are a Martinite.

Susscesful sides are confident sides Matos is building that in us confidence comes from results not "pretty" football.
Yes we are not a rounded team and our creative midfielder ie Galbraith is currently injured whilst previously he was filling in at right back.

For me we are a better watch than earlier in the season and appear more likely to get results then we did then.
As my earlier.pist said Matos arrived when we were in freefall. First he has had fo stop that ,consolidate and then move forwards.
Why not wait until he had had a preaeason and some input into.player recruitment before decrying him.
Im waiting until our 12th game next season that will tell us more

Same old …” I’m a Martinite “ why is that then? because I like to see players use the ball when they have plenty of time to do so.

Who’s decrying Matos then? Simply pointing out what I saw yesterday, an opinion by the way shared by someone who sits in front of me that attends every home game and ninety percent of away games.

Change the record mwsh.

 

[Vetchonian]

Same old …” I’m a Martinite “ why is that then? because I like to see players use the ball when they have plenty of time to do so.

Who’s decrying Matos then? Simply pointing out what I saw yesterday, an opinion by the way shared by someone who sits in front of me that attends every home game and ninety percent of away games.

Change the record mwsh.

Lets keep it civil shall we
Can I ask do you ever watch the whole game again online after attending?
I do rewatch several times.
Both Burgess and Cooper have played the ball not hoofed away many times. Burgess played a pass yesterday which began an attack.
Problem is most only see the game at the time and mistakes,or the things they dont like stick in the mind.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
You asked for sensible views ,which you have had, yet when people have put their opinion and argued against yours.....you get personal and start name calling.

 

[Copamundial]

Lets keep it civil shall we
Can I ask do you ever watch the whole game again online after attending?
I do rewatch several times.
Both Burgess and Cooper have played the ball not hoofed away many times. Burgess played a pass yesterday which began an attack.
Problem is most only see the game at the time and mistakes,or the things they dont like stick in the mind.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
You asked for sensible views ,which you have had, yet when people have put their opinion and argued against yours.....you get personal and start name calling.

Where have I called you a name then?

 

[lidojack]

Why are people measuring our progress ( or lack of it ) by what happened under Sheehan, that’s an extraordinary low bar to set.

I don’t think anyone has yet addressed the lack of a discernible style of play or game plan that I mentioned in my original post.

From a broader stand point - successful clubs are moving away from having a "style of play".

Having a style you are married to makes you predictable and easier to plan against. It's part of the reason that Man City have fallen off and are so inconsistent.

 

[Copamundial]

From a broader stand point - successful clubs are moving away from having a "style of play".

Having a style you are married to makes you predictable and easier to plan against. It's part of the reason that Man City have fallen off and are so inconsistent.

Fair play, Citeh looked really poor against Liverpool

 

[Manselton Jack]

Same old …” I’m a Martinite “ why is that then? because I like to see players use the ball when they have plenty of time to do so.

Who’s decrying Matos then? Simply pointing out what I saw yesterday, an opinion by the way shared by someone who sits in front of me that attends every home game and ninety percent of away games.

Change the record mwsh.

What would you expect Matos to do with the centre halfs at his disposal?
Neither Cabango or Burgess are comfortable on the ball & short of playing Fulton out of position the only alternative Matos has is Santos (who isn't good enough).
Cabango & Burgess overplaying at the back is a recipe for disaster.